Comments on: INSIDE-OUT LIVES: The Two Sides of Death in Bokurano and Narutaru http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/ Five Words: You Can't Censor My Love Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:31:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Exploring the Spectrum of Pleasure: Guilt in Narutaru (NSFW) « We Remember Love http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-63482 Exploring the Spectrum of Pleasure: Guilt in Narutaru (NSFW) « We Remember Love Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:02:07 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-63482 [...] crafted this last love song for Bokurano, and Mohiro Kitoh’s other completed manga Narutaru (lolikappa 2009/07/08) Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Anime is Serious Business Because [...] [...] crafted this last love song for Bokurano, and Mohiro Kitoh’s other completed manga Narutaru (lolikappa 2009/07/08) Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Anime is Serious Business Because [...]

]]> By: lolikappa http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-61440 lolikappa Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:40:32 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-61440 @<a href="#comment-61431" rel="nofollow">kirk_h</a>: I was able to follow the story just fine. It was a little confusing because I accidentally read a few chapters out of order, but once I went back and reread them, I didn't have any trouble following it. Almost everything was explained eventually, and sure, the pacing was a little weird, but... it all made sense. But it didn't make sense EASILY. You had to actually stop and think about it, fill in the various pieces of the puzzle. It's a bit like Evangelion in that sense--a huge confusing mindfuck if you don't want to take the time to figure it out, but if you do, the pieces are all there for you to put together. Such things happen to be one of my favorite types of stories, because I love putting together little bits of hints and worldbuilding and clues. .lolikappa @kirk_h: I was able to follow the story just fine. It was a little confusing because I accidentally read a few chapters out of order, but once I went back and reread them, I didn’t have any trouble following it. Almost everything was explained eventually, and sure, the pacing was a little weird, but… it all made sense. But it didn’t make sense EASILY. You had to actually stop and think about it, fill in the various pieces of the puzzle. It’s a bit like Evangelion in that sense–a huge confusing mindfuck if you don’t want to take the time to figure it out, but if you do, the pieces are all there for you to put together. Such things happen to be one of my favorite types of stories, because I love putting together little bits of hints and worldbuilding and clues.

.lolikappa

]]> By: kirk_h http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-61431 kirk_h Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:44:55 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-61431 Narutaru sucked so much balls. Shiina died in one chapter (hit by a freaking missile, innards flying everywhere), was returned to her parents in a bag, then a couple of chapters later just came back to life with no explanations whatsoever and nobody wondering why the hell she's alive again. Then she was menstruating and wanted to sex that stupid-looking guy who used to go out with the decapitated transvestite. The events leading to that missile attack was so much bullshit as well. That kid came out of nowhere, caused so much trouble, disappeared and forgotten just as fast. The ending was rushed as well. If he didn't pile on so much bullshit after bullshit, maybe he'd have time to make a coherent story and an ending that makes sense. God damn, this manga made me rage so much. I'm so freaking annoyed since I've read so many posts praising it (those people probably haven't read past volume 2). It's bullshit. I give it 2/10. Narutaru is a fucking waste of time; Bokurano is way better and more coherent. Narutaru sucked so much balls. Shiina died in one chapter (hit by a freaking missile, innards flying everywhere), was returned to her parents in a bag, then a couple of chapters later just came back to life with no explanations whatsoever and nobody wondering why the hell she’s alive again. Then she was menstruating and wanted to sex that stupid-looking guy who used to go out with the decapitated transvestite. The events leading to that missile attack was so much bullshit as well. That kid came out of nowhere, caused so much trouble, disappeared and forgotten just as fast. The ending was rushed as well. If he didn’t pile on so much bullshit after bullshit, maybe he’d have time to make a coherent story and an ending that makes sense. God damn, this manga made me rage so much. I’m so freaking annoyed since I’ve read so many posts praising it (those people probably haven’t read past volume 2). It’s bullshit. I give it 2/10. Narutaru is a fucking waste of time; Bokurano is way better and more coherent.

]]> By: Missing: My Moral Compass (Bokurano took it away; I suspect the Dung-Beetle) « We Remember Love http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-61430 Missing: My Moral Compass (Bokurano took it away; I suspect the Dung-Beetle) « We Remember Love Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:02:38 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-61430 [...] crafted this last love song for Bokurano, and Mohiro Kitoh’s other completed manga Narutaru (lolikappa [...] [...] crafted this last love song for Bokurano, and Mohiro Kitoh’s other completed manga Narutaru (lolikappa [...]

]]> By: lolikitsune http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-60007 lolikitsune Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:59:59 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-60007 @<a href="#comment-60006" rel="nofollow">lolikappa</a>: Madame, would you like to eat lead? @lolikappa: Madame, would you like to eat lead?

]]> By: lolikappa http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-60006 lolikappa Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:54:53 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-60006 @ghostlightning Awesome, you read my new favorite manga while I read yours. : ] Is it really pleasure, though? I take pleasure on a philosophical level, in that the writing is brilliant and eloquent and explores complex themes. My pleasure is not of the schadenfreudic variety (or at least I don't think so). I don't enjoy stories that kill their characters for no reason, or for the sake of drama. ... is what I'd like to say. But now that I think about it, character death is awesome BECAUSE it leads to drama. Which in turn leads to interesting psychology. So no, wait, I can say that I had been saying at first. Good. I don't think it's inappropriate entertainment, as long as we consume it for the right reasons. @lolikitsune That's because you're a pussy, LK-niisama. @otou-san I've never read/seen Battle Royale (and I know I need to), but I actually did run a LARP based on it. In which I played the teacher who personally went in and made sure people got murdering. It was... a very psychologically interesting experience, and all about karmic consequences. .lolikappa @ghostlightning
Awesome, you read my new favorite manga while I read yours. : ]

Is it really pleasure, though? I take pleasure on a philosophical level, in that the writing is brilliant and eloquent and explores complex themes. My pleasure is not of the schadenfreudic variety (or at least I don’t think so). I don’t enjoy stories that kill their characters for no reason, or for the sake of drama.

… is what I’d like to say. But now that I think about it, character death is awesome BECAUSE it leads to drama. Which in turn leads to interesting psychology. So no, wait, I can say that I had been saying at first. Good.

I don’t think it’s inappropriate entertainment, as long as we consume it for the right reasons.

@lolikitsune
That’s because you’re a pussy, LK-niisama.

@otou-san
I’ve never read/seen Battle Royale (and I know I need to), but I actually did run a LARP based on it. In which I played the teacher who personally went in and made sure people got murdering. It was… a very psychologically interesting experience, and all about karmic consequences.

.lolikappa

]]> By: otou-san http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-60005 otou-san Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:37:28 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-60005 I'm actually almost through with <em>Bokurano</em>, and I agree across the board. <em>Narutaro</em> sounds interesting. Another manga (though based on a book) I'd call the flipside of Bokurano: <em>Battle Royale</em>. It uses the same flashback story structure, but instead of tackling the story of how each character will deal with the inevitability of his own death, it's about dealing with the inevitability of having to kill someone else to stay alive. I’m actually almost through with Bokurano, and I agree across the board. Narutaro sounds interesting.

Another manga (though based on a book) I’d call the flipside of Bokurano: Battle Royale. It uses the same flashback story structure, but instead of tackling the story of how each character will deal with the inevitability of his own death, it’s about dealing with the inevitability of having to kill someone else to stay alive.

]]> By: lolikitsune http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-60004 lolikitsune Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:07:48 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-60004 I did not take pleasure in the misery of the kids in Bokurano. I actually was offended by how hopeless it was. I did not take pleasure in the misery of the kids in Bokurano. I actually was offended by how hopeless it was.

]]> By: ghostlightning http://not.dotq.org/2009/07/08/inside-out-lives-the-two-sides-of-death-in-bokurano-and-narutaru/#comment-60003 ghostlightning Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:04:13 +0000 http://not.dotq.org/?p=1644#comment-60003 Hehehe, excellent! I was just about to start reading <i>Bokurano</i> too! The 'downer' is a curious case of how I relate to the concept of the 'guilty pleasure.' People feel guilty (so they say) for watching crap reality shows, as if they would normally want to go to the opera. The dynamic is low-culture = guilt, and high culture = appropriate pleasure. Pfffft. There's a huge inauthenticity about this, relevant to those who have shameful otaku secrets. Rather, the guilt that I find are inspired by the content and not the medium or genre. In the case of <i>Bokurano</i>, it's taking pleasure in the misery of these kids, and ultimately taking pleasure (albeit indirectly) in their deaths. I'm watching <i>Mobile Suit Victory Gundam</i>, and as Adaywithoutme said, "it's just one long party." Basically I've been watching miserable people spiral downward into more misery and finally die. Because characters drop like flies because Tomino Yoshiyuki has no regard for human life. Why do I enjoy this shit? Is it for a hopeful triumphal payoff in the end when the good guys win? No, that's not even true. So consuming and enjoying sad, sad shit... is our pleasure appropriate? Hehehe, excellent! I was just about to start reading Bokurano too!

The ‘downer’ is a curious case of how I relate to the concept of the ‘guilty pleasure.’ People feel guilty (so they say) for watching crap reality shows, as if they would normally want to go to the opera. The dynamic is low-culture = guilt, and high culture = appropriate pleasure.

Pfffft. There’s a huge inauthenticity about this, relevant to those who have shameful otaku secrets.

Rather, the guilt that I find are inspired by the content and not the medium or genre.

In the case of Bokurano, it’s taking pleasure in the misery of these kids, and ultimately taking pleasure (albeit indirectly) in their deaths.

I’m watching Mobile Suit Victory Gundam, and as Adaywithoutme said, “it’s just one long party.” Basically I’ve been watching miserable people spiral downward into more misery and finally die. Because characters drop like flies because Tomino Yoshiyuki has no regard for human life.

Why do I enjoy this shit? Is it for a hopeful triumphal payoff in the end when the good guys win? No, that’s not even true.

So consuming and enjoying sad, sad shit… is our pleasure appropriate?

]]>